A Conversation with Snape
by Snarky64
Summary: Remus L tries to convince Severus S to resume Occlumency lessons with Harry. (No slash.)


**A Conversation with Snape**

* * *

><p>"<em>He told me he'd never teach me Occlumency again," said Harry indifferently, "like that's a big disappoint—"<em>

"_He WHAT?" shouted Sirius, causing Harry to jump and inhale a mouthful of ashes._

"_Are you serious, Harry?" said Lupin quickly. "He's stopped giving you lessons?"_

"_Yeah," said Harry, surprised at what he considered a great over-reaction. "But it's OK, I don't care, it's a bit of a relief to tell you the -"_

"_I'm coming up there to have a word with Snape," said Sirius forcefully, and he actually made to stand up, but Lupin wrenched him back down again._

"_If anyone's going to tell Snape it will be me!" he said firmly._

© J.K. Rowling, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix"

**A/N:** It was a conversation I always wondered about.

* * *

><p>.<p>

Remus Lupin sat, waiting for Severus Snape to speak. The other man stood in front of the fireplace in his quarters, one hand resting on the mantle, the other behind his back, staring into the fire. Outwardly, he was calm, but inwardly, he had difficulty containing his anger at the presence of one of his childhood adversaries.

It was one thing to have had to have tolerated the werewolf when he taught at Hogwarts two years ago – he had had no choice about that - but he had never invited him to his quarters, even then. Snape congratulated himself that he had put paid to that particular folly of Dumbledore's once Lupin's wolf had escaped unbound on the night of the unsuccessful recapture of Sirius Black. How Dumbledore had ever thought it would be safe to have a werewolf on the staff, Snape could not credit. Dumbledore of course took it for granted that Snape himself would make the complicated Wolfsbane potion that would enable the beast to teach and render his transformations more bearable. He had done so, Lupin never having had anything like the competence at Potions to have mastered it himself. Snape shook his head imperceptibly. He never understood how Lupin had not striven to make himself the master of that Potion, if no other, given the benefit it would deliver to him.

_Weak-minded beast,_ he thought. _A beast and his mutt. _His mind wandered to Black's transformation before him after the events of the Tri-Wizard tournament. He loathed Black still, even though he could no longer lay the blame at his door for the death of Lily. Black had been telling the truth all along: he was not the Secret Keeper who broke the Fidelius charm. Snape had seen Wormtail with his own eyes when he had returned to the Dark Lord that very night. Murderous as Snape felt towards Wormtail, he could not find a way to avenge Lily without destroying years of work towards regaining the Dark Lord's confidence to fulfil his vow. The downfall of the Dark Lord must bring the concomitant destruction of Wormtail - and that would have to suffice.

From this dark reverie, he turned his attention back to Lupin. Not quite in the mould of Potter and Black, but still their partner in cruelty. Why he had to suffer Lupin here, now, in what he thought of as his home, particularly as Potter's offspring had so recently violated his memories in the Pensieve, he could not say. The recollection of Potter's son gawking at his father's casual cruelty galled Snape still, and he felt an ugly flush of rage rise again.

"Severus, please," said Lupin gently, trying to shake Snape from his private thoughts. "Harry didn't mean to pry: he thought the Pensieve had information about his dreams. He didn't know it contained your personal memories. You're right, of course, he should have left the Pensieve as soon as he saw what it contained, but try to understand - he saw his parents, Severus - young, alive and whole - a boy who has no real memories of his own to cling to. He couldn't resist watching them."

"He couldn't resist? Well, we wouldn't want our celebrity to have to resist or in any way to deny himself his little pleasures, no matter at whose expense, I suppose," said Snape quickly and quietly. "I dare say he and his friends have had much fun at my expense as well as his relaying this to you and your restored hound. It must make you positively glow with pride that Harry should follow in the dear Marauders' paw prints."

Lupin shook his head and would not be deflected by Snape's slights. "When Harry told Sirius and me what he had seen, Severus, it was because he was mortified that his father was bullying you, that what you had always said of his father appeared to be true, and he sought our reassurance. He did not think it was funny, amusing or anything else of the kind; he is not that kind of boy. You must believe me, Severus."

Snape had a good idea of what kind of boy Potter was, despite some of the boy's more wretched memories that he had seen. "What reassurance did you give to the _mortified_ boy then?" Snape sneered.

"I beg your pardon."

"What did you tell him? How did you account for four boys against one? For hexing me behind my back? Or when I was wandless? I'd be interested to know." Snape had turned to face Lupin, one eyebrow raised.

"Not four," whispered Lupin, his eyes earnest.

"Do you think you're off the hook because you stood by or looked the other way? Did _you_ ever stop it? Did you even try? Did Pettigrew, the witless wonder, ever stop giggling every time it happened?"

"Severus, please, we were children, 16 years old..." Lupin pleaded, hands outspread.

"Do you think that made it less humiliating? Every year of my school life, day in and out, to be hexed without cessation, preferably in front of as many people as possible. You did so enjoy an audience."

Lupin held his head in his hands. "No, Severus, I didn't. But you and James – you used to hex him too - oh - I don't know why you antagonised each other on sight alone from the very first..."

Snape took one large step toward Lupin, and his glittering black eyes bored into Lupin's own.

"Do - you - not?" Snape hissed, clipping each word. "Can you really think of no reason, Lupin? Nothing that he _coveted_ from me?" Snape's voice was deadly.

Lupin was puzzled and he shifted uncomfortably in the chair under the malevolent stare of the other man. He shrugged and said in a small voice, "Well, James always disliked the Dark Arts, and you must admit, Severus, that ..."

Faster than Lupin could follow, Snape had crossed to him and grabbed Lupin's collar in his fists and drawn him to his enraged face. "Spare me that sanctimonious nonsense," Snape snarled. "Dark Arts had nothing to do with it to begin with. I know full well why James Potter was antagonised by my very presence from our first journey on the Hogwarts Express ... why he provoked me every day for years beyond all endurance until I ... I ..." Snape trailed off, looking quite distracted and breathless. He threw Lupin back in the chair, straightened and then returned to the fire with his stiff back to Lupin.

Snape felt quite unmanned. His defences had crumbled and he had nearly said far too much. His one blessing had been that he had snatched Potter from the Pensieve before he had seen Snape begging for Lily's forgiveness and being cut dead, and then seeing his remaining sad and hollow years at school devoid of his beloved friend who he had cherished for most of his childhood only to have had to watch her become cherished by another – by _that_ other! Had Potter seen that, Snape thought he might have killed him: vow or no. Clearly, Lupin had never truly understood Snape's affection for Lily, and Snape would never admit to the werewolf just how much James Potter had cost him.

Lupin was stunned by the outburst and confused. He could not make sense of what Snape was saying. But really, this had happened so long ago, it was difficult to credit that Snape nursed this grudge. Indeed, to Lupin, it seemed Snape positively stoked his childhood animosity. Perhaps it gave him purpose? Lupin shook his head again, uncomprehending. He was intrigued, but knew it wouldn't help his cause to pursue this, but he would discuss it with Sirius later - perhaps Sirius knew.

Lupin smoothed his robe collar down and composed himself.

"Severus, Dumbledore told us it is so very important that Harry learns how to shut out Voldemort. You are a superb Occlumens who could teach him so much, if we could just get past this animosity ..."

"Don't think to get round me with simple-minded flattery Lupin. It's beneath you."

"I'm sorry you took it that way. It's deference to your undoubted skill. If I could teach Harry myself, I would, but I don't have your skill." Snape snorted. "Severus, I entreat you to reconsider. If not for Harry personally then because the Order needs Harry to be safe." Snape inclined his head towards Lupin whilst he considered what Lupin had just said and how like Dumbledore in its appeal to the greater good. His expression became unreadable once more.

"Do you have any idea how I became such a 'superb' Occlumens, as you put it, Lupin? Why I needed to refine and hone that skill beyond most wizards' competence?" Snape asked quietly.

"To be a creditable spy, I suppose..."

"Don't be a dolt, Lupin!" Snape snapped. "Even before I sought out Dumbledore for help to return from the Dark path, I had learned to Occlude my mind to a greater degree than most ever hoped for. I had finally realised that all the choices I had made were so terribly wrong and had such catastrophic consequences, and that all the Dark Lord could give the world was pain and waste. Once I had realised this, it became imperative that my mind be completely subsumed just to stay alive because the Dark Lord _is_ the most accomplished Legilimens and he _does not_ ask permission to enter one's mind and takes what he sees fit from it and ravages it if he does not like what he finds." His voice was barely audible now as he spoke quickly, his eyes distant but shimmering with fear. Lupin found himself fascinated in spite of himself. He had never really considered what Snape's life had been as a Death Eater, or since as a spy. He had never really considered Snape at all.

"In short, my life - my sanity - depended on Occlumency. And later, other peoples' lives have depended upon my skill, and still do," Snape said in a more matter-of-fact tone. "Potter has no aptitude whatsoever. He is insolent and lazy. He will not practise. I dare say, he thinks it beneath him when he could be playing Quidditch instead. He does not perceive himself to be in any danger that couldn't be solved by a quick getaway on his Firebolt or by the intervention of abler wizards and witches than he." Snape waved a slender hand dismissively.

Lupin took an intake of breath, steadying himself to say something that he had hoped he would not have to, as he knew it would provoke Snape - but that had been too harsh. Quietly, he said, "Severus, are you too scared to teach Harry?"

Snape pivoted to face Lupin squarely. "I - beg - your - pardon," he hissed, eyebrows knotted.

"It isn't just what Harry saw in the Pensieve that upset you, is it?" Lupin looked away from Snape to the floor. He was composed and quiet, and did not want to be combative in revealing to Snape what he now knew of Snape's unhappy childhood before school that Harry had seen. "Harry broke through, didn't he? He saw some of your memories when he countered your spell. You are angry he saw those." Lupin's voice was insistent now. "I think Harry was making progress and you feared what he would see." Snape was livid, but Lupin foolishly pressed on. "Damn it, man, so fearful are you of your own childhood traumas being exposed, you would risk Harry's mind and the safety of others to shield yourself."

Snape's face drained in fury. Realising he was achieving nothing other than alienating Snape further, Lupin held out both his hands and quickly said, "I went too far - I apologise. But others are at risk, not just Harry - we need your assistance and I am appealing to your better nature to try to overcome your fear of your home and how you perceived our treatment of you..."

"_Perceived_, Lupin?" Snape barked. Snape drew a large breath and exhaled and then turned his back on Lupin yet again to compose himself. This wolf would try the patience of a saint, he was sure, and Snape knew himself to be no saint. His fists balled and unclenched repeatedly. "You really could not have solidified my resolution to assist Potter no further had you planned it."

Lupin groaned and drew his hand slowly over his face. He couldn't deny it; he had handled the man very badly indeed. He had boldly bowled ahead and now he had blown it. He stood, his head bowed.

"Severus, you have my heartfelt apology. I was clearly not the right person to approach you with this and I will take my leave of you. But I will say that I am sorry for any hurt I ever caused you. I can only speak for myself. I was too insecure to challenge my friends when their pranks went too far. I knew it and saw it. I was too weak. I am more troubled than you will ever know that it has scarred you so." Lupin hung his head, truthfully ashamed. "If I were to be truthful, my main concerns were self-centred: I was terrified of losing my friends and such normality as I had managed to achieve with those friends." Snape rolled his eyes.

"I know you despise me as a werewolf, Severus." Lupin allowed himself a small smile. "You have been so kind as to share some small insight of your fear as a Death Eater to instruct me on your need for Occlumency. If I may say, Severus: that was your choice." He heard Snape take a sharp intake of breath but he continued, willing Snape to have some modicum of understanding and he faced Snape fully, holding his black gaze.

"Becoming a Dark creature was not my choice. It is my waking nightmare every day. It will forever keep me from the love and comfort I would dearly love – to marry, to have a family, to be as ordinary as you could have been had you not chosen the Dark path. I do not doubt your pain is real but I believe you could surmount it if you chose. I may be a Dark creature, Severus, but I always stayed with the Light and I will always strive to do so and not let my Dark creature overtake me and warp my mind. If I have no Wolfsbane potion, I suffer with my transformations every month and lock myself away. I hurt myself, but I do not give into the beast's cravings. I am shunned by most of society and know my future will be short and lonely. I have no doubt my end will be brutal. I don't deserve that - but I still make the choice to stay in the Light."

"Bravo," Snape sneered, although inside he was shaken. "Am I supposed to be moved, St. Remus the Insufferable? Is this where we _empathise_?"

"Stop it, Severus," Lupin said wearily, noticing an odd prickling sensation in his forehead so uncomfortable that he needed to break his gaze from Snape.

"It was very pretty; it may even have been genuine, but what use was it?" Snape spat.

Sighing again, Lupin said, "If you refuse to take it in the spirit it was offered, that of understanding and possibly assistance, no use whatsoever." He moved to collect his travelling cloak.

Snape turned over in his mind the memories of loneliness and pain that he had just collected from Lupin unknowingly during his speech. "Lupin," Snape said. "What of your hound? Is he not your partner?"

"I don't know what you mean, Severus."

"Black," Snape said.

Lupin's eyebrows shot up. "Sirius? What on earth can you mean?" Lupin laughed. "Oh no, Severus, no! You cannot have thought it! We are the very best of friends, but no! Did you think so really?" Lupin sat back down heavily, whilst laughing.

"Me and most of the school really," Snape said dismissively. "You row like an old married couple, and you live together now. He became an animgus for you: a dog in fact." Although Snape never would have admitted it, this magic had impressed him when he had discovered it.

"Well," Lupin chuckled. "I suppose I can see why people might have thought that at school. James was besotted with Lily from the outset." Lupin did not see Snape's expression darken. "I never went out with any girls at school due to my, er, furry problem, as we called it. Sirius loved girls, the more the better, but never for any length of time because he was young, too full of his good looks and too easily bored. James and Peter also became animagi for me. Did you know that? We travelled together at the full moon. Sirius loved to transform – he looked forward to the full moon. Of course, I didn't - but their company made it bearable. James took the form of a stag. Peter only managed a rat - he was never strong in his magic, as you know. Appropriate, as it turns out." Lupin sighed. "James and Sirius took strong forms to help them control me. That Sirius chose a dog is neither here nor there.

"Then, those years when Sirius might have looked to settling down, he was wrongly imprisoned. To find him innocent of betraying James and Lily was such joy for me, Severus, I don't deny it." Snape's face drained of colour, unremarked by the other man, who continued, "I have had so few friends and then to have lost them all in the space of that one night was devastating. To regain at least one was quite miraculous for me - but not in the way you thought." Lupin indulged in a smile at Snape.

"I live with him because he invited me, knowing I have no permanent home of my own and how difficult it is for me to find work, and to help him re-adjust to life out of Azkaban, although he's still not fully free. He doesn't find it easy, and we bicker. So?" Lupin shrugged.

"You are not telling me though that you have been celibate all this time," Snape said incredulously, the question out before he could regain his composure at having misunderstood this for so long.

"It would be dangerous for a woman to be with someone like me. It is my wildest dream to be ordinary, Severus. It is my abiding sadness." Lupin cast his eyes to the floor. "And you?" he asked. "I don't recall you with anyone at school, or have heard of any entanglements since." He expected to be rebuffed in his enquiry but considered he was entitled to ask since Snape had shown no reticence.

"If you cannot recall me with any particular girl at school, I suspect you were too busy being entertained by my being hoisted in the air by my ankles at every opportunity whilst your good friend attempted to divest me of my underwear," Snape hissed again. Lupin put his hands out in a conciliatory gesture so the matter wouldn't be re-visited, then Snape's shoulders relaxed.

Snape decided he had had enough of standing and being defensive. He was tired. Lupin was quite wearing. These were his quarters and he would sit. If the wolf became aggressive, he could deal with it, but he doubted now that this would happen. Lupin was not a belligerent dog like Black. He decided then to share with the werewolf some thoughts he'd had whilst Lupin had been talking. Snape realised he had said too much and saw an opportunity to remedy it. He Summoned a bottle and two glasses from the kitchen. He went to sit in the chair facing Lupin who did not disguise his surprise at being offered a glass.

"I sought the Dark Lord's service as soon as I left school. My passion for the Dark Arts knew no bounds by this time and I was enchanted by the power of them. I was quite driven by the desire for power, powerful friends, to belong..."

Lupin again shifted uncomfortably in his seat. It was disconcerting to hear Snape talk so.

"These were false idols, but I did not know that then. I went willingly into the Dark Lord's service and I was an exemplary servant for a time. Romance was really not an aspect of our work. That said, there were plenty of willing women, although pure-bloods were rather dismissive of me as a half-blood at first - until I proved my worth to the Dark Lord." Snape knew the dangerous question was formulating in Lupin's mind as to the nature of that proof, so he pressed on. "Soon my beliefs began to change and I needed to Occlude my mind to a degree probably never achieved before so, really, Lupin, romance simply could not be part of any plan I had. Had I found someone special, my happiness would make me a target, or would make me weak, or affect my Occlumency. I didn't even allow myself to think of it. Then once I had committed myself to Dumbledore as his agent, my need for secrecy was even greater.

"Now, as a renewed Death Eater, I must take part in ceremonies of such depravity as do not bear repeating to you but, suffice it to say, they shred my soul." Snape paused, his voice small and, despite the alcohol, dry as autumn leaves. Lupin was wide-eyed. "Until this is over, I cannot see that I could be whole physically or mentally to be able to commit any woman." _Not that I have any such desire,_ Snape appended to himself but he needed to deflect Lupin from Snape's own earlier injudicious outburst.

Lupin regarded the floor for a long time. Snape became engrossed once more in the fire.

Snape spoke first. "However, I think _you_ are wrong."

Lupin looked amiably at Snape. "In what respect?" he asked, smiling.

"If you find someone, I think you have every right to be as happy as anyone else. If a woman you love accepts you as a werewolf, then you should not deny yourself. I suggest, however, she should be good at Potions as a pre-requisite." Snape allowed himself a small smile at Lupin's lack of proficiency. He then became sombre once more. "You should not aspire to die alone, Lupin."

Lupin's smile faltered and he looked older than his years. "I could never ask that of anyone."

"Then you are a fool," said Snape and again looked away.

Lupin looked at the bottle. Neither of them had noticed just how much they had imbibed. It was hardly surprising this conversation had become so maudlin. Its start was hardly auspicious. Still, it had been revelatory in its own way, to both men. Each had picked up on the similarities of their existences, when they had previously really only acknowledged their marked differences. They would never be friends, but there had been subtle shifts of understanding that might help in years to come in their work for the Order.

"What will you do when the war is over?" Lupin asked. Snape's eyes flickered.

"I think, like you, that it is unlikely I will survive," he said without emotion. "I have not seriously considered any future beyond the war."

Lupin felt a lump in his throat, realising the man before him faced derision, disbelief and distrust from both sides every day - in fact, he nurtured those feelings in others. Whoever won would be sceptical of his loyalty. His position, like Lupin's, was unbearable. He had simply never considered the danger Snape ran every day, and he found himself in awe of it. If Snape were damaged, Lupin (as damaged as he himself had been through his life) could not blame him for his bitterness. He had been wrong to demand Snape teach Harry if it caused the man further pain. He would ask Dumbledore to make other arrangements - perhaps Dumbledore would teach Harry.

Lupin stood to leave once again. He turned to face Snape. "You and I have been as good as imprisoned in our own ways these past years, as if _we_ had been in Azkaban, haven't we?" Lupin said. Snape looked at Lupin, his face inscrutable.

"With Dementors of our own making, Remus," Snape whispered, but he did not sneer as he closed the door as his visitor departed.

**Epilogue**

Remus recounted his meeting fully to Dumbledore, who listened carefully and with the outward appearance of paternal concern. Inwardly, he found he was alarmed by how much Severus had let slip to Remus. A more insightful or calculating mind might make certain deductions or leaps of judgement that could deliver Severus into his enemies' hands if Remus repeated certain salient points, or reveal the weakness that Severus had tried to bury so deeply.

Dumbledore agreed with Remus that Severus could not overcome his feelings for Harry's father to continue to teach Harry. Of course, Dumbledore understood at a deeper level the overwhelming loss that lay at the heart of those feelings, which Remus did not. He would have to look to alternative arrangements. However, if Remus recounted the meeting to Sirius, Sirius might well remember that which Remus had failed to observe, and between them they just might piece together the history of Severus' broken heart. Dumbledore could not see Severus recovering from such a revelation were that to be made public against his will.

At that point in his musings, Remus said, "When I tell Sirius, I'm sure it will help the two to try to come to some kind of mutual understanding."

This confirmed Dumbledore's concern.

"Even though they goaded each other to wand-point so recently, Remus? I think you ask the impossible of both men." Dumbledore shook his head slowly and sighed. Arthur had told Dumbledore of this incident and it had disturbed him greatly. He knew the damage Severus had suffered during his childhood and beyond, having been his confessor for some years now, but he had clearly not appreciated the depth of the scars the adolescent incidents caused. However, the incident at Sirius' home had demonstrated to Dumbledore that Sirius, as good as imprisoned at Grimmauld Place, with no proper treatment for the years of mistreatment at Azkaban during his young adult life, was short-tempered, fretful and rash - but also as arrested in his emotional development due to his own prolonged abuse as Severus had been.

He regarded the kind werewolf in front of him. He was appalled by the damage suffered by these three men, and yet marvelled that they retained any capacity for love and goodness at all.

The fact remained, however, that some of the information Severus had given Remus was dangerous, whether Remus gave it freely or if it were extracted from him. Given the mutual loathing between Severus and Sirius, that information was potentially explosive in the hands of Sirius.

Dumbledore made his decision, stood and went to Remus, and placed his hand gently on his shoulder.

"Remus, my boy ..." he said as Remus trustingly looked into Dumbledore's eyes. Sadly, Dumbledore focused on the conversation between the two men.

"Obliviate."

_**~FIN~**_


End file.
